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Improved weapon finesse?


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Author Roy
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« on: June 19, 2013, 05:21:40 pm »

Xero wants to homebrew this feat for his monk:

Improved Weapon Finesse
Prequisites: Dexterity 13, Weapon Finesse.
Benefit: When using any weapon compatible with the Weapon Finesse feat, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier for melee damage rolls.

Because he wants to deal damage on his fists using his dex mod

So let's see how this feat checks out in terms of balance.

Stoneplate armor grants you +9 AC 35% arcane spell failure chance at 1,800 gold
This costs 1,830 golds

so armor grants +13 AC for 1,830 golds to a str based fighter, or +9 for 1,800

a strength based fighter with 22 (+6) str and 7 dex (-2) has 11 extra AC

With a longsword, attacks for d20+6, deals 1d8+6 (average 10) at 21 AC

with a greatsword, attacks for d20+6, deals 2d6+9 (average 16) at 17 AC

With a fullblade (via one feat), attacks for d20+6 deals 2d8+9 (average 17) at 17 AC

this costs 1 feat

On the other hand

another fighter has 22 dex and 7 str

rosewood armor grants +2 ac at max +6 dex bonus and costs 50 gp

thus automatically has 18 AC, 10% arcane spell failure chance. 50 golds for this.

at 7 str she can carry up to a fullblade, but you can't finesse that so it's moot. however...

with a longsword (via one feat), attacks for d20+6, deals 1d8+6 (averaging 10), at 18 AC

with a shortsword (no feats), attacks for d20+6, deals 1d6+6 (averaging 8), at 18 AC

two shortswords, attacks for d20+2, d20-2, deals 2d6+12, (average 19), at 18 AC (no feats)


at the cost of three feats, our dex fighter can put out
with two shortswords, attacks for d20+4, d20+4, deals 2d6+12 (average 19), at 18 AC.

at the same time, our str fighter can: Use a fullblade (EWP), Increase attack rolls by 1 (focus), increase damage rolls by 2 (specilaization)
With a fullblade, attacks for d20+7 deals 2d8+11 (average 19) at 17 AC

So the dex fighter is less likely to deal full damage, but more likely to get at least some in, as he gets two chances to hit while the str fighter only gets one, and more likely to get hit. the same amount of feats, for a slightly less potent character in terms of damage output.

damage output
tie

our dex fighter is slightly less likely to get hit.
dex fighter wins

dex fighter kit costs significantly less.
dex fighter wins

Our dex fighter has +6 init, while our str fighter has -2.  The dex fighter averages at 16, while the str at 8.
dex fighter wins big time

the Str fighter automatically gets +6 on 2 skills
the Dex fighter automatically gets +6 on 7 skills
dex fighter wins big time, again

carrying capacity
str fighter wins, but the dex fighter doesn't need to win here because everything he needs for combat (2 short swords, armor) is still under his light load. so it doesn't matter

in conclusion: for fighters, this feat (improved weapon finesse) is balanced slightly in favor of the dex fighter... if you exclude initiative and skills entirely, in which case it becomes totally in favor of the dex fighter

but, let's see what happens when someone other than fighters gets this feat

a sorcerer. let's say, elle, perhaps

at 22 dex and 7 strength (which Elle has), a sorcerer is already beyond fine, as they don't use either of these to deal damage, and she gets a really nice AC bonus (+6)

but suddenly with weapon finesse and improved weapon finesse, she also makes melee attacks for 1d20+6 dealing 1d6+6

with the Hand of the Psion bloodline ability this is at a range of 30 feet, 7 times a day. this AUTOMATICALLY deals more damage (at least 7) than magic missile can put out at first, which she can only use 5 times a day. there is exchange in the fact MM auto-hits, but at the cost of 3 feats our sorcerer is only a slightly less effective a melee fighter than our dex fighter (given less HP), who can also attack for half damage at range 7 times a day, but 10% arcane spell chance failure (rosewood armor) and a need to drop one weapon to do spells with somatic parts, but this is fixed by using still spell.

sooo let's make it a combat feat perhaps?

can monks take combat feats?

« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 06:08:18 pm by Author Roy » Report Spam   Logged

[4/7/2013 6:01:19 PM] DMRoy: NEGATIVE FOUR TO ATTACK ROLLS
[4/7/2013 6:01:22 PM] DMRoy: THAT'S YOUR BENEFIT
[4/7/2013 6:01:50 PM] Luke Fon Fabre: That, uh, doesn't sound very... beneficial to me...
[4/7/2013 6:01:58 PM] DMRoy: NEGATIVE EIGHT TO ATTACK ROLLS
[4/7/2013 6:02:17 PM] DMRoy: I BET THAT NEGATIVE FOUR SOUNDS A LOT BETTER NOW
[4/7/2013 6:02:19 PM] DMRoy: DON'T IT
[4/7/2013 6:02:26 PM] Super High-School Level Lesbian: Super High-School Level Lesbian snorts
[4/7/2013 6:02:46 PM | Edited 6:02:47 PM] Luke Fon Fabre: Yes, can I go back to that?
[4/7/2013 6:03:50 PM] Super High-School Level Lesbian: NO
[4/7/2013 6:03:52 PM] DMRoy: NO

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